Am I crazy?

Two friends and I are planning to come to San Rafael Swell from Denver for spring break this week. We are planning on doing technical canyoneering in Forgotten and Lower Eagle canyons one day and rock climbing in the area. Is this unrealistic (too cold, snow)? We don't have wetsuits for the canyon but I don't think we will have to do any swimming. I don't have a good impression of what it will be like in Utah this time of the year. Thanks!

I've spent all day and night walking around in flip flops in and around Moab in late March. I've also spent an afternoon shoveling snow in early April. Expect anyting. I think canyoneering might be subject to the type of weather you encounter. You can always chase the sun when you are climbing, but once you drop down a narrow canyon the temps will drop a lot. With high water run off that time of year and unpredicatable weather you might end up with more days of climbing (which is not a bad option).

It's been a pretty wet winter so I'm not sure it has dried out yet.

I haven't been out west yet this year... but this thread might help.

Quagmire

I also am wondering about my mental health as I'm stopping there at the end of the month on my way to the Valley.

Canyoneering?
Hmm... I thought climbing, David. Bring your skates, not your wet suit... there is still snow on the north faces.

Actually your timing will be pretty good if the weather holds out. The good part is that things should be pretty dry if it stays in the 60's and sunny. Plan on it still being cold in the canyons until mid-day. I have done Little Wild Horse in March with beautiful weather.....
But it could snow if things take a turn for the worse.
Check out Kelsey's guide to hiking the Swell for more complete information.

So maybe I should bring crampons? Of course then I have to bring my mountaineering boots which I don't really want to trash wading through a pothole. Do you think everything is frozen or will there still be mucky potholes, in which case I'll just wear my old boots and try and skirt around any ice?

David Appelhans wrote:Do you think everything is frozen or will there still be mucky potholes, in which case I'll just wear my old boots and try and skirt around any ice?

Be careful in that cold water. Someone died last July (yeah, in July) in the Swell due to exposure in cold water in a canyoneering gig (Knotted Rope).

Not familiar with those canyons. From reading quickly about them, they don't sound like heavy hitters with regard to water and "keepers". Does sound like you'll be up climbing out of some water, though.

Guess I'd follow Tom's advice, here:

canyoneeringusa.com/utah/sw…

Doesn't seem like the elevation is too high. My bet is there isn't much snow left there, but, you'd be better off posting the question on a canyon forum like the yahoo canyons group, or, the uutah (bogley now or some such) canyoneering forums. They more'n likely have up to date beta on conditions in the canyons.

Cheers,

The swell is still fuked UNLESS you stay on the beaten path (although, there is only one beaten path that I know of in the swell.) Lots of snow and mud yet, I was there Sunday afternoon/evening.

edit: I just read the description from the link that Brian posted... the interstate is clear! Still, if it were me, I would go A LOT farther south, 4 corners area, extra crazy polygamy country, etc.

I'm just telling you, the north faces are still holding some snow. That means down in the slots it is still frozen. It might even make it easier, but don't think that its gonna be ice-free. I gaurantee if it doesn't see the sun, its below freezing most of the time.

Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote:I'm just telling you, the north faces are still holding some snow. That means down in the slots it is still frozen. It might even make it easier, but don't think that its gonna be ice-free. I gaurantee if it doesn't see the sun, its below freezing most of the time.

Would argue with you (!), but, checked mesonet and the low temp's are still pretty darn chilly. Green River is showing a high of 57F and a low of 27F. And, a station off I70 at around the area of their prosed hike and elevation shows a high of 48F and a low of 22F, so, pretty chilly still in the early a.m.

My bet is that the potholes aren't frozen, but, could have ice in them. Waist deep for a few feet might be tolerable if you can keep moving. Penalty points for that Forgotton Canyon rig seem low. Will be muddy. Please, no crampons (hard on the rock).

Icy potholes in the desert is a weird thing. Did Imlay (Zion) in the winter (was 16F in the morning) a couple years back, and, was surprised which areas had open water, and which had solid ice. Seems like if the pothole can "see" sky, then it'll be frozen if its super cold. Otherwise, the surrounding rock is too big a driver.

Popular this time of year for the canyon folk are the "irish" canyons and that area south of Hanksville. Not as much water holding in those canyons. I think Kelsey's technical canyon guide might be your best bet for beta, or, fish around on Tom's site a bit more and you'll see some of those canyons (North Wash area). Be careful, though, some of those rigs are BURLEY.

Here's a conditions report from last weekend from North Wash: "hog2, leprechauns, blarneys, lucky charms. no water, sunny and warm. as opposed to getting sand blasted all night long(sat) there last weekend w/27 degrees and still blowing hard, sans the sand, in the morning. ymmv."

Fish around here and post a question if you have one (some current conditions for North Wash posted):

bogley.com/forum/viewforum.…

Also here (need to join to post, but, RAM is home from Death Valley so should be quick response):

groups.yahoo.com/group/cany…

Whatever you do, report back here when you're done!

Cheers,

Brian in SLC

Thanks for pointing out the bogley site. I had done alot of my homework and had studied Tom's guide front to back, but the bogley site is much better for getting a feel for the canyons. I read all about freezefest which looks indicative of my conditions. The north wash looks good for this time of year, but I think this forgotten canyon will be similar since "normally" there is no swimming. Brian, I agree with you on open sky ice and since this canyon is not too narrow, I think it might be a good bet. I'm going to write down a few alternate plans just in case, but as of now we're going to go and make an adventure out of it.

To answer your question directly, which no one has yet....

YOU ARE CRAZY.

I was down in the swell a few days ago. It's great in the sun at a cliff climbing, but the roads are still muddy and there is a ton of water/ice in the canyons. It was a snowy winter. I wouldn't assume any canyon is dried out. I would rent/borrow/buy a wet suit.

I do think North Wash would be a much better option, but still very cold in the slots.

I hear boulder canyon and Eldo are the shit...so why drive all the way out here to freeze your ass off in a slot?

We ended up going to North wash and doing middle fork of leprechaun on day 1. On day 2 we did Shananigans which was supposed to be a more serious canyon. Overall fun trip but in my opinion the technical nature of canyoneering is exaggerated (compared to something like trad climbing).