Dry Tooling at the sport park
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Just to get some more insight from the community. |
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I'd say find somewhere else to 'tool. |
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Steven Nedorolik wrote:I'd say find somewhere else to 'tool. Just find some chosspile or roadcut somewhere and set up a TR. Its not too cool to use tools at a free climbing area.I thought the sport park was a chipped out over bolted outdoor gym. Ethics were not held true devloping this area so I here. Thanks for the input. I will continue the search for more info. |
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SAL wrote: I thought the sport park was a chipped out over bolted outdoor gym. Ethics were not held true devloping this area so I here. Thanks for the input. I will continue the search for more info.I agree that it can seem like a tough call on places like the Sport Park, but, for better or worse, most of those routes are now established and have their fans, so I think dry tooling on them would be inappropriate. There is plenty of undeveloped rock in Boulder Canyon, on which you could practice your dry tooling on a toprope - most of it right on the roadsides. |
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Don't Do It! |
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I wouldn't, but being Boulder -- hey, if it feels good.. |
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As much as I hate the installation of Sport Park, established rock climbing areas should never be used to practice dry-tooling. I think this is the consensus throughout the climbing community, at least in the US. |
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I am buying an asphalt saw so I can cut a perfect(for me at least) handcrack @ the sport park. Don't worry though I will bolt it. You will need 30 draws for the first pitch. |
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Daniel Crescenzo wrote:I am buying an asphalt saw so I can cut a perfect(for me at least) handcrack @ the sport park. Don't worry though I will bolt it. You will need 30 draws for the first pitch.HaHaHa, Well done! Can I dry tool your route when your done? Make sure you saw some nice horizontal holds so no one will ever have to hand jam. I will even skip clips to make it more aesthetic. Cheerios! |
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SAL, I like the picture of the bolted crack on your personal page! |
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I'd say hell yes, tool it. . . but wear your crampons too, and if you need any pro, pound in an ill-fitting angle - better yet, smash in an ice-screw! |
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Nuke the gay whales! |
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Jason Himick wrote:It seems to me the 'established routes' argument doesn't hold weight. From what information I can gather, the 'Sport Park' is a crag that was never treated with any respect or developed with good climbing ethics. In which case, why does anyone have the right to bolt and chip but not dry tool? I would like to hear stronger arguments as to why dry tooling is any more of an impact to a crag that has been desecrated with drills and hammers. There are plenty of established natural routes in Boulder canyon and the surrounding area such that dry tooling does not need to be relegated to potentially dangerous roadside rock cuts or untouched crags without established routes. Why damage untouched rock when you can just dry tool on a crag that's already beat to shit?More wrongs don't make a right. First of all, there has been far less chipping at SP, at least in my experience, than is being portrayed here. I went there and did all of the routes up to and including what were called 5.10, and none of them appeared to be chipped. The only noticeable example of rock alteration was on the 12a with the baseball-size pocket in it. I know about that one because I photographed that route for a Climbing Magazine article. As far as I am concerned, it was an egregious breach of a universally accepted ethic, at least in this country. My problem is that it is now an established part of the route, so I feel uncomfortable about filling it in at this point. However, I believe that the people who did it should be made aware that almost everyone in the community disagrees with the practice. I agree that many of the routes were poorly thought out and bolted, but that is the case in other areas, as well. However, these routes are established - too many bolts or not - and potentially messing them up with ice tools would be selfish and inconsiderate. More importantly, this argument isn't so much about potential damage as it is about common consideration. All types of climbing cause a certain amount of damage to the rock. People constantly piss and moan about the impact of bolts, but camming devices do far more damage. A peek inside any desert crack will quickly corroborate that. Is it someone's right to dry-tool at SP or any other unregulated area? It is just as much someone's right to do so as it is someone else's right to place bolts or gear at any one of those areas. The question is: Is it socially good form or, more importantly, considerate of the others who share the rock? My answer is that it isn't, and, in most cases, we abide by that. What I am hearing here sounds like an attempt at justification, because some don't agree with the style in which SP was developed. That is personal taste, and it shouldn't supersede common consideration for all of the people who regularly enjoy those established routes. Say what you want about the place - I certainly have - but it is always crowded with climbers who enjoy it. Going out on virgin rock eliminates the entire question of consideration. There is plenty of untapped terrain that would work well for dry-tooling, and you could even bolt it for that reason. Establish an entire area for that purpose, if you like. You have just as much right to do so as anyone has to develop in their own style. What we don't want to do is constantly come off as a bunch of selfish, self-serving pricks in public forums like these. Some of you think that only climbers read these things, but you are sadly mistaken. Public officials, lawyers, and real estate developers all have access to these debates and could potentially use our lack of unity against us if it served their purposes. What we need to do is become a united front for the preservation of our sport. Forget the petty issues of style. Do you think any judge gives a flying f--k about climbing style and ethics when it comes to determining whether a rich developer wins our land? If you think that I'm reaching here, all I can say is that you live in a very small reality. The Access Fund understands this, because they are out there, daily, negotiating with these people, fighting to preserve access for us. It's time that we stop pissing and moaning about the small stuff, and start working together as a recreational community. I have a question for you: Would you gear up to dry-tool an established trad route if you knew that locals like Roger Briggs, Steve Levin, Hank Caylor, Matt Samet, and the like were against it? If your answer is no, because you respect their style, then you need to have the same consideration for all the other Boulder tax payers who climb at the sport areas in Boulder Canyon. These people have every bit as much right to enjoy the areas that fit their style of climbing. There is no room for the game of elitism when it comes to access. It serves no one in the long run - neither legally nor ethically. As far as dry-tooling, per se, is concerned, I think the more important question has to do with the type of potential damage that the practice could cause to established free-climbing routes. Maybe that topic would make a more productive and educational discussion. |
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So when I go out a stake a claim this weekend of my own in boulder canyon and call it a "dry tool " area. Maybe even bolt some of the lines. A rock climber comes up and sends a line and decides that it should not be dry tooled on cuase its a great line and is now going to be "his" established rock climb. Does he then have the right to tell me I should not dry tool the route for fear of damage? Do I have the right to tell him to get the F of my route cuase it was established as a dry tooling route and I dont want stupid ass white chalk all over it. Just thinking outside the box here and exposing the discussion a little further. It seems that two wrongs don't make a right but I guarantee you that if I blew a hold off a route at the sport park no one would ask they would just chip or drill another right next to it. Cuase thats how that place rolls. Oh by the way. |
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this is intresting... |
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cory wrote:is it ok to ice/mixed climb on the flatirons when the rare ice/mixed route forms on the 1st? this mixed climb ascends an already existing rockclimb. should we not do that? ice tools will eventually create a divit in a hold (faster on sandstone than granite.) what about aiding(black canyon) with tools on a hook pitch??I think this is a great question. It made me remember where I learned to climb. Free routes on Cathedral Ledge have regularly been tooled for many years. Most of the four-season routes, like Thin Air, are more verglas climbing than dry-tooling, although the latter does exist. In thinking about that, I am inclined to say that whether or not to dry-tool on free routes should maybe be a matter of serious discretion. Take Thin Air, for instance. The rock is solid, so there is little chance of prying off a key flake. The route is also only 5.6, so I seriously doubt that the small pits caused by axe tips would enhance any given hold to the extent of changing the difficulty or nature of the route in any way. On the other hand, difficult routes on slabs, where the holds are so small and specifically oriented, such that small alterations would change the character and difficulty of the climb, should not be dry-tooled. It all seems like a matter of common sense to me. It is an interesting discussion, and, as I said earlier, I believe that the bigger picture lies in working together as a community, so that we are prepared and unified when issues of access confront us. |
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cory wrote:to add some other thoughts, is it OK to ice/mixed climb on the flatirons when the rare ice/mixed route forms on the 1st? this mixed climb ascends an already existing rockclimb. should we not do that? ice tools will eventually create a divot in a hold (faster on sandstone than granite.) what about aiding(black canyon) with tools on a hook pitch??I started to wonder about this last winter when those routes on the flatirons were shaping up and I think that it boils down to do what you want to do and expect someone to cry about it no matter what. A great example would be this Beverly Potter psycho lady that lives in North West Boulder. She gets pissed that people are parking in front of her house on a public street in public parking areas. dailycamera.com/news/2007/j… This is quite funny. People who moved into the Valmont Trailer Park 1/2 to 3/4 a century after the airport was built bitch about airplane noise. Sport climbers bitch about trad climbers who bitch about sport climbers who bitch about boulderers. My point is that no matter how hard you try to appease the public someone is going to have a problem with what your doing regardless. If you want to mix climb the flatirons in the winter then you will most likely be scrutinized for damaging rock on what many consider to be a strict classic rock climb. On the other hand a large group of people will give you praise for accomplishing a climb that gets little traffic in those rare conditions. |
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As a habit from when I once led kids on climbing trips at a summer camp, I often evaluate my actions with the idea that if I do something, 11 other people will do the same thing, and ask myself how I feel about the impacts of 12 people doing what I had done. |
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A pleasant discussion is such a welcome change. |
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SAL, you need to ask if it's OK to dry tool Castle Rock instead of the Sport Park. That should land you many more fish. And the Roger Briggs line obviously isn't catching much either, since some here don't know the name. Now go to the Hesse Chimney and dry tool that. |
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Just chiming in here to give my two cents worth on dry-tooling. |