Stashed Crash Pads in RMNP

Avery Nelson and anyone else that disapproves of bouldering and the way some off us go about what we do, Thanks for speaking your mind Avery. What I am about to say is nothing against you or anyone else, this will be about what I see that has been happening as a boulderer and the community, so don't take it to seriously! I can not be entirely correct on what i am about to say.

The bouldering community is a entirely different community that you probably can't comprehend right now, you have to fully devote all your climbing time to Bouldering to understand the beauty of our sport, leaveing pads behind in the open and trashing areas I do disapprove of.

I think about 70% of all sponsored boulders aren't the people that are leaveing there pads up there, the other 38% are hiding them well so they don't get trashed, 2% of them are not. I think that is pretty accurate?

Being a sponsored climber means that you Believe in the product your wearing and are Devoted helping the people who make the product, Educating people around how great there product is, and how it has improved your climbing experience as a climber. All though there are very few people out there that take a sponsorship for granted.

Quote:I Like Trad, Sport, Ice, Aid and Mixed for sure! I just choose to be Stronger and have Fun Climbing on Boulders.

Boulder,
Wade David

I think this is my final post on this subject.

wade david wrote:... I think about 70% of all sponsored boulders aren't the people that are leaveing there pads up there, the other 38% are hiding them well so they don't get trashed, 2% of them are not. I think that is pretty accurate? ... I think this is my final post on this subject.

Now go out there and give us 110% !!!

I boulder myself quite a bunch, usually solo, bouldering is great fun. I'm usually one of the "idiots" in the Meadows pebble popping highballs without a pad while everyone else is sitting about with Grand'itis.

Leaving the pads in wilderness is not fun. Many of us got notes from the USFS about it in the terms of access to wilderness, & I agree that it is not acceptable to trash the wilderness, but I don't agree that climbers are/should be the main focus of wilderness concerns. Let's keep the focus elsewhere.

You beat me to it Mark, nice math skills Wade.

yes 110% I didn't make a mistake, I just figured that you guys would get what I ment, but I guess you guys are still trying to be above boulders on this subject. Boulders do alot of highballs to, I think it is safe to say that when someone makes a good point, by pointing out the differences between rope climbers and boulders, you all still have to nit-pick the subject.

WD

This is all getting pretty stupid and we need to get back on track to what the issue is really about: "Lack of respect for the environment."

We are all climbers. I boulder, trad, sport, aid, etc. To me it is just climbing, regardless of what you want to call it. Lets not go down the road and play the blame game and single out special groups.

As a society of recreation users we just need to look after the resources we use. It's that simple. Whether it is stashed pads, old tape, or trash, just be kind to the environment.

wade david wrote:yes 110% I didn't make a mistake, I just figured that you guys would get what I ment, but I guess you guys are still trying to be above boulders on this subject. Boulders do alot of highballs to, I think it is safe to say that when someone makes a good point, by pointing out the differences between rope climbers and boulders, you all still have to nit-pick the subject. WD

It's easy to understand why each new generation would feel that they are so different than the ones that preceded them. They have only their own limited experience from which to draw that conclusion. With time and more experience, they eventually realize that their forbearers traveled down many of the same roads. My point is that we all are climbers. Bouldering, bolt clipping, gear placing, and plastic pulling are simply derivatives of the same activity - climbing.

This short-sightedness isn't endemic to the younger climbers. In fact, age has a frustrating habit of diminishing our ability to remember what it was like to be young. Consequently, we lose our tolerance and patience for the very mindsets that once guided our own youthful journeys.

What I see happening with new-age boulderers is very similar to what I witnessed when snowboarding initially gained popularity. It takes a relatively long time to learn the skills necessary to ski at a level at which one can really enjoy the mountains. Skiers who hang in there long enough to learn those skills inevitably learn the protocols and etiquette associated with playing in that environment.

The introduction of snowboarding changed everything in that the learning curve was much shorter, giving riders more immediate and regular access to the wilderness environment. Their apparent lack of etiquette wasn't so much an intentional disregard for nature as much as it was basic ignorance. They simply didn't have enough time to develop that consciousness before they were up and running. This in conjunction with snowboarding's having attracted many from the urban, skateboarding culture brought an influx of people into the environment, who, hitherto, had very little if no experience with such places.

Snowboarding has since matured into a staple, mountain activity, and its participants have a better understanding of mountain etiquette. Networks like Fuel TV have become a great source of information for kids who become interested in pursuing such sports. The consciousness that these new participants are bringing to the mountains, because of these information sources, is creating a much more pleasant experience for the snowboarders and the veteran skiers whom they regularly encounter.

Breaking into bouldering is indisputably less involved than for roped climbing. This and its immense popularity among kids not regularly associated with the wilderness environment is creating some of the same problems that we initially saw with snowboarders. I am not too concerned, because time will iron out the wrinkles. These kids are a little green with regard to their awareness of the importance of preserving the environment, but they'll figure it out in time. The upside is that they also bring an amazing amount of enthusiasm and natural, unencumbered talent to the sport. I'm glad that they're out there; they inspire me to hang in there and not acquiesce to age.

I have been in the lifestyle for three decades, and climbers are my favorite people. Climbing allows us to live a bigger life. It opens the doors to world-wide travel in such a way that we participate as more than merely tourists. There is a camaraderie among climbers that transcends cultural barriers, as anyone who has couch-surfed the planet can attest.

Try to remember that we don't live in a perfect world and that we all trip over our own and each other's shoelaces from time to time. Bickering over such prosaic issues only diminishes the essence of our extraordinary lifestyle.

Cheers,

KC

Well said Ken.

wade david wrote:Avery Nelson and anyone else that disapproves of bouldering and the way some off us go about what we do, Thanks for speaking your mind Avery.

Wade -- I have nothing against bouldering, just the environmental issues -- and hence the sustainability. Honestly, I think most climbers don't, either.

Well said Ken...I couldn't agree more.

One of the things that gets pointed out, or thrown back in our face, by the stashpad crowd is that trad climber's have stashed gear too, so, therefore, they have a right to stash pads. Twenty years ago, I wasn't against stashed gear. I never did it, not because I was against it but that the need never came up. I was guiding in RMNP at that time and would be up on Long's and the Diamond 2-3 times a week. Each time I carried my gear (Oh, all right. I'd get the client psyched up and they'd proudly carry it for all the world to see.), then carried it out at the end of the day. Was it a pain? Did it hurt my legs? Did my quads bulk up? You bet, but I did it.

Stashing gear or crash pads in never an okay thing to do. Period. It's not morally, environmentally, aesthetically or even a legal thing to do. Get over it. Not that people occaisionally don't bend the rules, or that I haven't occaisionally bent the rules (Those shortcuts on the way down from Long's RULE!) but it's a matter of volume. If those short cuts started to wash out and erode, I'd quit in a second. Likewise, with so many people going up to Chaos and Evans on a regular basis the habit of stashing pads has become a big problem. If that many people were stashing gear and ropes at the base of the Diamond, that would be a problem, too. That doesn't mean that it's okay to stash if you're the only one stashing. It's not. Unfortunately, the only honorable and unselfish answer to this is to quit the habit. Sorry about that.

I would love to have someone hike my pack up and stash it on Broadway so I could climb the Diamond. There is no way I could do that myself any more. I might be able to get to B-way if I didn't have to carry gear...no way I could do it if I had anything more than a CamelBack. What that means is that I probably won't ever do the Diamond again. That bums me out seriously but that's the world we live in. The Diamond, Mt. Evans and Chaos, despite the crowds and social trails, are pristine places that deserve to remain so. There are too few areas left in the world that qualify and we need to jealously guard those as best we can.

If you want to highball over a 9-pad stack go to Bishop or Carter or the 420's. And by all means go to Chaos and Evans, just hike in with your posse and your 9 pads and be sure to hike them out at the end of the day.

BTW, I heard yesterday that a crew hiked in to Chaos last week and pre-emptively took out the stashed pads. Thanks for cleaning up but it's pretty cheeseball to keep those pads. The proper thing to do would be to set up a retrieval spot (At the Spot?) and let people claim their pads. Charge them $20 for your gas and effort then donate that to the Access Fund if you want to credit your Karma Bank.

Climb safe,
Mal

John McNamee wrote:We are all climbers. I boulder, trad, sport, aid, etc. To me it is just climbing, regardless of what you want to call it. Lets not go down the road and play the blame game and single out special groups.

This is all the scuba caver's fault!!!

Daniel Crescenzo wrote: This is all the scuba caver's fault!!!

Actually, most of the cave divers I know do stash gear between dive trips.

Charles Danforth wrote: Actually, most of the cave divers I know do stash gear between dive trips.

See!!! I'm headed down to fla to kick some ass!!! They started it.

Hey Malcolm,

I would be happy to hike your gear up to the Diamond and meet you on top to take it down. I guess I am just an old softie.

Lee

Daniel Crescenzo wrote: See!!! I'm headed down to fla to kick some ass!!! They started it.

If we can blame Florida, or California, I am so in!

This has Texas written all over it.

Great posts Ken and Malcolm. I don't know if more needs to be said.

I also believe that the right thing to do is have a place to pick up the pads that were hiked out last weekend. I understand why some may dissagree, but it is better to take the high road when possible.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of folks who still do not agree with Ken and Malcolm's wonderfully eloquent posts on the subject. I remain hopeful for the future of bouldering in the Park and at Evans, but sadly this is not even close to the end of stashed pads.

See you all "out there."

Watch out Lee. I may take you up on the offer. I'd have to work a bit on my "Dunlop" if I was tho have any prayer of climbing the damn thing.

Next summer?
Mal

Malcolm,

I would also be willing to help if possible. And I'm positive that you have other friends on the Front Range who would help. That's what friends do. Speak up if you want to make it happen.

Cheers,
Brad

Sounds like we got us a posse. WhoooHooooo!
Diamond 08...(Don't think I'll have time this year.)
Mal